God Saw That It Was Good

01/12/2016

Recently, I was reading a blog that stated that at the time of the Creation God saw that it (his creation) was good.  So, I posted a comment saying that, “Eventually, however, he would repent and come to see that man was evil, that man wasn’t good after all (and brought a great flood to destroy his creation). Not very omniscient I would say.”

The rest of the thread went like this:

Blogger: Prior to the fall, man was good. The flood is multiple thousands of years after the first few chapters of Genesis.

My comment: The point was, though, that a supposedly omniscient God didn’t know that man would become evil. In fact, he should have known even before he created him.

Blogger: Where on earth are you getting this insane idea that He didn’t know what was going to happen?

My comment: God saw that it was good, just as Genesis says. What, he didn’t know that it (man) would become evil? Of course, he knew since he is omniscient. So, there are a number of possibilities (your choice): (1) God lied when he said that it was good; (2) God had a plan from before the time of creation to produce a being that would become evil; (3) God is not omniscient or (4) the God of the Bible is not truly God. Which one do you choose?

Blogger: God created a being with the freedom to choose. That freedom held within it the possibility to choose evil. That does NOT mean God created evil….

 

The problem of evil

So, if God didn’t create evil, who did? Let’s break it down.

According to the Bible, God created everything. Yes, everything, even the serpent. By definition, then, he must have created evil. Therefore, if you believe in Satan, the Devil or Lucifer, God also intentionally created them as well (by definition). Reflect a moment and consider why he would have done that.

If God was indeed omniscient, he would have known how his creation would turn out. As the Bible says, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7).  Biblically speaking, then, an omniscient God knowingly created evil.

 

The god of Genesis

There’s one catch, though. God didn’t really know how man would turn out (see Genesis 6:5-7). When he saw man’s wickedness, he regretted having created man in the first place and, therefore, decided to destroy his creation. It’s what I call a Frankenstein moment. God, only then, realized what a monster he had created. These verses clearly demonstrate that God was not really omniscient, or that Yahweh was not really God. Your choice.

Then there are what I call the “say what?” moments in the Bible:

  • God created the serpent (Genesis 3:1) and saw that it was good. Remind me again how something that was supposedly evil was good. I guess that God thought it was good, though.
  • God gave man the Tree of Knowledge (Genesis 1:29) and later changed his mind (Genesis 2:17).  Changed his mind? How is it even remotely possible that an omniscient God could, or would, change his mind. However, he didn’t just do it once. He did it at least three times that we know of. He also changed his mind with regards to the Tree of Life, placing it off-limits after the fact (Genesis 3:22-24).  Then, there’s God change of heart in deciding to destroy his creation.

Finally, God lied about dying if one ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.  Of course, he then punished the serpent for telling the truth. So, tell me, exactly who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

What have we learned, then, about what the Bible says about the god of the Old Testament?  Let’s recap:

  • God is somewhat bi-polar.  One moment he loves us and the next he’s bringing a flood to get rid of us.
  • God likes to change his mind. We’re good, we’re evil; you can have the Tree, no you can’t.
  • God isn’t fair, which explains God punishment of the serpent (for telling the truth) and God’s punishment of Adam and Eve for a so-called act of disobedience when they didn’t have the capacity to distinguish between right and wrong.
  • God lies (e.g. about dying if you ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge).
  • God subscribes to the philosophy of do as I say, not as I do. That is, he violated his own commandment about killing.

So, that’s what the Bible, itself, says about the God of the Old Testament.  Given all of that, exactly what kind of god are we really talking about here? Certainly, not one that I would want to emulate or pray to. How about you?

Truth be told… he wasn’t even God (the Prime Creator).

 

Epilogue

There is more than one god in the Bible.  Actually, there are many gods, including Yahweh, the Elohim, the Most High god and the invisible spirit (God) of the New Testament, among others.  It can all be pretty confusing to a reader of the Bible so, in my next post, I’ll try to sort it all out.

“Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?”

          – Lamentations 3:38

 

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41 Responses to “God Saw That It Was Good”

  1. Excellent piece – the sort that gets the mind humming. Personally, I prefer a more Gnostic take on creation. (Exegesis of the Soul; On the Origin of the World, etc). From that perspective, Lucifer was not evil. He was a divine being who simply refuse to serve man as he served God. He was cast down for “insubordination” – because he loved God too much. His evil rose from a broken heart, being denied the affection of the beloved.
    In terms of lying about dying if Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge, I see that either as a metaphor: knowledge brings the death of innocence; or as a matter of A & E being essentially immortal until they ate the forbidden fruit. By so doing, they brought death into an otherwise deathless world. Just a thought. And now I am going to be thinking about these things all day! 🙂

    • chicagoja said

      Thanks for commenting. You’re way to deep for this particular post, the point of which was simply to inquire about the way that religion typically interprets the biblical creation story. Of course, many of the stories are allegorical or have meaning on a higher, spiritual level. As for the Gnostics, they believed that Yahweh was Ialdabaoth, the evil one, who was the source of evil in the world.

  2. Nan said

    There’s one thing I can definitely say … your posts always seem to present perspectives that make one think. Whether we agree with them or not.

    Awhile back on my blog I asked the question — “Where did the beliefs that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent originate?” They’re not in the bible, so where did they come from?

    I never got an answer. Do YOU know?

  3. Look into Molinism and Open Theism if you want real answers.

  4. If it’s unknown, then how do you know you are right about the traditional understandings of the Bible being wrong? Put another way, why should anyone give your “truth” any more merit then their truth?

    • chicagoja said

      Unlike you, I don’t claim to know the truth. In fact, it’s not my mission to convince anyone of a particular theology or even to believe in God for that matter. I simply challenge people to re-examine what they believe in. The Bible says to seek the truth and the truth will set you free. Obviously, the truth isn’t self-evident and, obviously, you haven’t found it either.

      • I don’t see the point of questioning other beliefs, unless you have a belief. It’s like tearing down a house instead of building one. I know what the truth is, and the Truth has set me free. Does that mean I understand everything? Of course not. Obviously, a omnipotent being cannot be perfectly understood, but that’s ok, we don’t have to know everything to believe.

      • chicagoja said

        So, which is it then? You say that you know the truth, yet you also say that you don’t know everything because an omnipotent being cannot be perfectly understood. Of course, that’s a contradiction of terms. I do agree with your last statement (sort of) which is that you don’t need to know everything to believe. I say sort of because you actually don’t need to know anything to believe. That’s why they call it faith. Actually, an omnipotent being (the Infinite) is unknowable by a finite mind (man). As the Pascal Wager states, “If there is a God, He is infinitely unknowable.” Of course, Pascal was a Christian himself.

      • It’s not a contradiction, because I know what I need to know, namely, that He loves me, and what He requires of me. What I don’t need to fully understand is how God works. You could say much the same about the physical universe. We know enough to survive here, but there is always more to learn. Of course, with God, there is infinitely more to learn then there is even about physics and such.

      • chicagoja said

        Well said. Unfortunately, we started down this road only because you said that you had “real answers” and you then said that you “know the truth.”

      • The Truth is a Person. Place your trust in anything else (like your own understanding) and you’ll never find those real answers. Molinism fits with what I know of God’s character. That doesn’t mean I trust in any philosophical position, though, only in the Person of Christ.

      • chicagoja said

        Unfortunately, much of what passes for the truth in this world is a lie.

  5. babarahs said

    I could have written that…I could of….

  6. Apart from your mistranslation of Isaiah 45:7, and your fabrication of the idea that God created absolutely everything according to the Bible, what do you expect to achieve here?

    • chicagoja said

      Simply to show that there is a different perspective of the truth other than the one that you believe in. Curious to know, though, why you feel that the Bible says that something was created by someone other than God?

      • The question is posed quite insanely. God created everything? God created the universe and life. Sin has nothing to do with God — that’s just a simple fact. Well, the only relation between God and sin is that He will destroy it. Amen.

      • chicagoja said

        I posited the question because you referred to my “fabrication of the idea that God created everything” but now you, yourself, say that “God created the universe and life.” So, which is it? By the way, sin has everything to do with God because God created, as you said, the universe and life and, as the Bible says, He even created the serpent. Obviously, an omniscient God would have known that sin would be a consequence of His creation so why did he create life the way he did?

      • “which is it?” LOL There was no contradiction, I explained God is only responsible for the direct creation of the universe and life. Sin of course can’t be put on Him, for He never sinned. The serpent? You mean Satan? Whom God created perfect without blemish, but then ON HIS OWN sinned because of his pride?

      • chicagoja said

        By definition, an omniscient God is responsible for all of creation and what happens thereafter. An omniscient god would have known what the outcome was even before he created life. Just because God gave man free will and man proceeded to act ungod-like doesn’t in any way excuse an omniscient god.

      • LOL! Knowing about what will happen does not incite any obligation to stop it, and your pseudo-logical opinions ignore the fact that God will judge sin anyways on the Second Coming. So, not only have you just gave an opinion piece in substitute for an argument, not only did you give an unsubstantiated assertion in place of a logical argument, but it ended up outright false in the end! LOL!!

      • chicagoja said

        Problem is that what I previously told is not just my opinion but the opinion of countless others (philosophers, Christians, researchers, historians etal.) Obviously you have let your moniker Scientific Christian go to your head. Of course, God was under no obligation to stop it, as you say. However, he created life and he knew the outcome in advance of creating it. So, if he is an all-loving god he had a moral obligation not to create life that would turn to evil. As for opinion pieces, there is no evidence for God judging sin on the Second Coming. As for the Second Coming itself, no less than Christian theologian, writer and humanitarian Albert Schweitzer points out several places where the Bible says that Jesus would return during the lifetime of the disciples. Perhaps, you could clarify your thoughts by answering the logic problem of Greek philosopher Epicurus which you may recall goes something like this: either God was (1) willing to prevent evil but was unable – in which case God wasn’t really omnipotent, or (2) able to prevent evil but not willing – in which case he was malevolent, or (3) both willing and able to prevent evil – in which case where did evil come from, or (4) neither able nor willing – in which case why call him God.

      • The opinion of anyone at all is irrelevant (unless we’re talking about God, or maybe an angel or something) unless they have substantiation for their opinions.

        As we’ve seen, there is no problem for evil, because on Christianity, God will judge and eliminate evil in the Second Coming. The evidence for Jesus claiming to come within the lifetime of His disciples is extraordinarily weak and negligible. Clearly, Christianity has no problems regarding this.

      • chicagoja said

        I noticed that you didn’t answer the Epicurus logic problem. No doubt you realize how indefensible your position is on God and evil. You’re right about one thing though. Everyone has an opinion. This means that your opinion is no doubt irrelevant along with those that say that God will judge and eliminate evil. The thing is that the Bible actually supports my view and not yours. LOL

      • The ‘Epicurus logic problem’ was outright debunked because I had completely explained how an omnipotent omniscient omnibenevolent God is perfectly consistent with allowing sin, because He will judge and destroy sin in the end anyways. I’d thought you would have followed this.

        God judging evil is not my opinion, and so it cannot be dismissed — it’s a documented fact in the Holy Bible. As we’ve seen, you have utterly failed to put up an argument against God with the non-problem of evil. The unfortunate problem for yourself is, these things have already been answered 10,000,000,000,000x.

      • chicagoja said

        Of course, if the Epicurus logic problem had been debunked you should have felt right at home answering it in the first place, which you didn’t. Now that you have answered it, it should be obvious that you agree with a prior comment I made. Namely, that if God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent and if he allowed sin he would be malevolent (just as Epicurus stated). This is obviously the case since an omnibenevolent God would never subject his creation to such an evil world. As the Oxford English Dictionary says, omnibenevolent means “infinite benevolence”. As for the Bible, you can try that argument on the other Christian apologetics and I’m sure that they’re brainwashed enough to go along with you. Obviously, it doesn’t fly with people who are more enlightened and who already know the Truth. Go peddle your B.S. to the choir.

      • God? Malevolent? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.

        The dictionary tells me malevolence is wishing to do evil to others. God however, is going to annihilate all evil, and He NEVER committed evil in the first place (God is sinless), and thus this is nonsense. God allowing sin to happen is IRRELEVANT in all respects because He will judge it, as I’ve been saying 9999999999x now. God, when He destroys evil and all the wicked ones, is (according to Christianity) going to recreate the entire universe (new heaven and new earth, see gen. 1:1) free from sin forever.

        As we’ve seen, you have NO ARGUMENT/RESPONSE to the fact that God will utterly annihilate all evil. This debate seems to have ended. You have no argument.

      • chicagoja said

        The debate seems to have ended because you want it to end, as you have never provided any proof for your argument. Go spew your nonsense to someone else. I only deal with those that have some modicum of common sense.

      • Nan said

        Of course this whole discussion is assuming the Christian god exists. 😋

      • chicagoja said

        He takes it as a given, because the Bible tells him so.

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